Messianic Judaism

Answers to claims by nojesus4jews.weebly.com & 'Judaism is not Christianity minus Jesus' https://www.facebook.com/nojesus4jews/posts/2263680773668174 made against Jews for Jesus and Christians.

Their claims this week:
"Jesus not passover lamb"
"how does death of righteous atone?"
"is blood necessary for the forgiveness of sins?" "do you need blood for the remission of sins?"
"sin is not what it seems" ["no original sin"?]
"Judaism and death: 5 surprising ideas" "Death is not a punishment (-- it is part of the process of life -- of learning and growing, just as birth itself is part of the process.)"

Our answers from the bible:

B'reshit/Genesis 1 & 2: 6th day man (E) versus 8th day man (J). (6 number of old man, works. 8 number of new man.)

Genesis: tree of life?

Genesis: "the day you eat of the fruit you will die"

Genesis: Adam and Eve's skin garments versus the previous fig-leaves covers.

Genesis: Abel's lamb sacrifice (versus Cains works). & Abel's blood. (Hebrews 12:24.)

Genesis: 10 patriarchs names meanings
"Adam man,
Seth appointed,
Enosh mortal,
Kenan sorrow, but
Mahalalel the blessed god,
Jared shall come down,
(7th) Enoch teaching, that
(8th) Methuselah his death shall bring (the flood), the
Lamech despairing,
Noah comfort". (Refs Missler, religion.wikia.com .)

Genesis: Flood & Ark of Noah symbolises baptism.
Methsuelah/Noah 8th after Enoch (7th), 8 souls in Ark, 8 = new.

Genesis: "Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine and he was priest of God Most High."

Genesis: Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac/ram.

Genesis: cupbearer versus baker in story of Joseph. Cupbearer = wine/blood, baker = sweat/works.

Exodus: passover/pesach lamb.
Blood on door posts forms sign of cross.

Exodus: passed through the *Red* Sea type of baptism type of death & rebirth. (Hebrews 11:29; 12:24.)

Exodus 24:18: blood sprinkled over everything with (red) wool and hyssop in the Mosaic law rituals. (& saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you." Hebrews 9:19; 11:28.)

Torah: sacrifices ("which is from kosher animals properly killed"). (Leviticus 16:27. 1 Esdras 1:6; 7:7; 8:15.)

Vayikra/Leviticus 17:11
"(For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls:) for it is the blood that makes (an) atonement for the/one's nefesh/(immortal-)soul/life(-force)" (Hebrews 9:22.)

Torah: serpent bitten people who look at Nehushtan on cross are healed, those who refuse to look died.
Acts 4:12 "There is salvation in none other, for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, by which we must be saved!"
"Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is lord".
"Anyone who does not believe in him, or who does not wait for his arrival, has not merely denied the other prophets, but has also denied the Torah and Moses, our Rabbi." Maimonides.

Joshua: crossing river Jordan symbolises baptism (symbolises dying, buried, resurrection), lead by Joshua/Jesus. River Jordan stopped all the way back to Adam.

Joshua: Rahab hung a *red* cord/scarf out her window to be saved.

Job 1:5 "Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, "It may be that my sons have sinned, and renounced God in their hearts."

Psalm 118 "Hosanna (lord save)".

"himself took our infirmities" Isaiah 53:4.
"He was led as a sheep to the slaughter. As a lamb before his shearer is silent, so he doesn't open his mouth. In his humiliation, his judgment was taken away. Who will declare His generation?  For his life is taken from the earth." Isaiah 53: 7,8; Acts 8:32-33.

"the soul that sins shall die" Y'chezkel/Ezekiel 18:20.

Prophets: Emmanuel "god with us". They shall all be taught of the Lord (Isaiah 54). No one will say know the lord/law because they will all *know* him from least to greatest. (New Testament: Body the temple. No temple in New Jerusalem.)
(Implies personal intimate internal rebirth and oneness, similar to law written in circumcised heart).

"all our works are as dirty (menstrual-)rags".

Hosea 6:6 "I require mercy/loving-kindness not sacrifice(s)".

"Did you offer *Me* sacrifices and meal-offerings in the desert 40 years, O house of Israel?" Amos 5:25.

Jonah: sailors throwing cargo overboard and toiling didn't work, only throwing Jonah overboard worked.

*Jeshua* the *priest* (Levitical/Aaronic/priestly messiah) & Zerubbabel the king (Judahite/Davidic/royal messiah) (Hagg 1:14; Zech 6:11; 2 Jewish messiahs).

Zechariah 12:10 "they shall look on him who they pierced".

"T'nach tells us time and again that the sin sacrifice (chatat qorban), teshuva (repenting of your sins and returning to G-d) and tzedakah (doing good for other people, aka "charity") atone for sins." "T'nach (bible) tells us time and time and time again that repentance atones, charity atones, prayer atones..." "Intentional sins could be forgiven with acts of charity and repenting".

Sirach 50:15 "He stretched out his hand to the cup, and poured of the blood of the grape, he poured out at the foot of the altar a sweetsmelling savour unto the most high King of all."

2 Maccabees 3:33 "Now as the high priest was making an atonement...." (Philemon 2:17.)

Dead Sea Scrolls Crucified Messiah scroll.

Gospels: 'gospel' "good/glad tidings/news".

Matthew & Luke: Jesus/Joshua means "Jhvh salvation/saves". Numerical value 888, 8 = new.

Matthew 5:48 "be you therefore perfect"
"except your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees".
(How can any human be so spotlessly perfect without Jesus sacrifice? No one can be without it/him.)

Mark 1:4 "John came baptizing/immersing in the wilderness and preaching the baptism of repentance for forgiveness of sins."

Gospels: "behold the lamb of God" (John 1:29)

Gospels: "Why does this man speak blasphemies like that? Who can forgive sins but God alone?" ... "But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins..."

Gospels: sign of Jonah (who was in belly of whale/fish 3 days).

Gospels: man said to Jesus he had kept all the mosaic laws since youth. Jesus responded "one thing you lack (sell all you have and follow me)".

Gospels: last supper / communion. "I have desired greatly to eat this passover with you". "this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission of sins."
"May his blood be on us, and on our children!"
Jesus crucified on day of passover.

John: No man has raised themselves up to heaven/God, except for him who came down from God.

John 1:13 "who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

John 3: must be born again.

John 6:51-58 "Yes, the bread which I will give for the life of the world is my flesh." "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" "Most certainly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you don't have life in yourselves. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he who feeds on me, he will also live because of me. This is the bread which came down out of heaven--not as our fathers ate the manna, and died.  He who eats this bread will live forever."

Gospels:
3 languages INRI, parted raiment, 4 arms cross, "4 trees woods cross" 4 gospels = died for al 3 races and 4 quarters and 4 ages of world. (4 rivers of Eden in Genesis.)
vertical & horizontal bars heaven/God & earth/man.

Gospels: words on cross "it is finished" or "he has done it/this" (Psalm 23:31) imply solution to fallenness/sin.

Gospels: Garden Tomb: the bed/beds with two pillows 1 at head and 1 at foot, 1 for for him and 1 for us with our heads and feet opposite direction side by side (those tombs beds in those days were for husband and wife). We died and buried and raised with him.

New Testament: Jesus preaches to them in Abraham's bosom sheol.

Acts 17:26 "He made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the surface of the earth". (Islam: Adam made from clot of blood.)

Acts 20:28 "(the Lord and) God which he purchased with his own blood."

Romans 3:19-25 "Because by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in his sight. .... But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets;
even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe.  For there is no distinction, for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; whom God set forth to be an atoning-sacrifice/propitiation, through faith in his blood"
Romans 5:9 "being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God's wrath through him."

Romans 5-6 "Therefore, as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death passed to all men, because all sinned. For until the law, sin was in the world; but sin is not charged when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those whose sins weren't like Adam's disobedience, who is a foreshadowing of him who was to come. But the free gift isn't like the trespass.  For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. The gift is not as through one who sinned:  for the judgment came by one to condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses to justification. For if by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; so much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ. So then as through one trespass, all men were condemned; even so through one act of righteousness, all men were justified to life. For as through the one man's disobedience many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one, many will be made righteous. The law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace abounded more exceedingly; that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. What shall we say then?  Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? May it never be!  We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? Or don't you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him through baptism to death, that just like Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection; knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be in bondage to sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin."

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
("The laborer is worthy of his wages." Luke 10:7; Leviticus 19:13.)

Paul/John: writes law in heart. circumcises heart.

1 Corinthians 10:16 & 11:25 "The cup of blessing which we bless, isn't it a communion of the blood of Christ?  The bread which we break, isn't it a communion of the body of Christ?" & 15:50 "flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom of God".

1 Corinthians 15:23, 47-49 "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order:  Christ the first fruits...." "The first man, Adam, became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However that which is spiritual isn't first, but that which is natural, then that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, made of dust.  The second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the one made of dust, such are those who are also made of dust; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. As we have borne the image of those made of dust, we-will/let's also bear the image of the heavenly."

Ephesians 1:7 & 2:13 by Paul: "in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace" "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ."

Colossians 1:14, 20-22 "in whom we have our redemption, (through his blood,)" "having made peace through the blood of his cross. You, being in past times alienated and enemies in your mind in your evil works, yet now he has reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and without blemish and blameless before him...."

Hebrews 2:14 "Since then the children have shared in flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner partook of the same, that through death he might bring to nothing him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and might deliver all of them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

Hebrews 9:22 "(According to the law, nearly everything is cleansed with blood, and) without/apart-from ((the) shedding of) blood there is no remission/forgiveness (of sins)".

Hebrews 9:7 "but into the second the high priest alone, once in the year, not without blood, which he offers for himself, and for the errors of the people."

Hebrews 9:11-25 But Christ having come as a high priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation, nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify to the cleanness of the flesh: how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? For this reason he is the mediator of a new covenant, since a death has occurred for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first covenant, that those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where a last will and testament is, there must of necessity be the death of him who made it. For a will is in force where there has been death, for it is never in force while he who made it lives. Therefore even the first covenant has not been dedicated without blood."

Hebrews 10:4-8 "For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, "Sacrifice and offering you didn't desire, but you prepared a body for me; You had no pleasure in whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin."

Hebrews 10:19-20 Having therefore, brothers, boldness to enter into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by the way which he dedicated for us, a new and living way, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh"
Hebrews 10:29 "How much worse punishment, do you think, will he be judged worthy of, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?"

Hebrews 13:11-12, 20 "For the bodies of those animals, whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside of the camp. Therefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered outside of the gate." "Now may the God of peace, who brought again from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an eternal covenant, our Lord Jesus"

1 Peter 1:2 "in sanctification of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood:"

1 Peter/Cephas 18-23 "knowing that you were redeemed, not with corruptible things, ..., from the useless way of life handed down from your fathers, but with precious blood, as of a faultless and pure lamb, the blood of Christ; who ... was revealed at the end of times for your sake, who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead, and gave him glory; so that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing you have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth through the Spirit in sincere brotherly affection, ...: having been born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which lives and remains forever."

1 John 1:7-10 "and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we haven't sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1 John/Yehokhanan 5:8: blood, water and spirit.

Revelation 1:5 "Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us, and washed us from our sins by his blood"

Revelation 5:6-12 "I saw ... a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain...." "You are worthy to take the book, and to open its seals: for you were killed, and bought us for God with your blood, out of every tribe, language, people, and nation, ...." "Worthy is the Lamb who has been killed."

"white robes". "They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb's blood."  Revelation 7:9, 14.

"They overcame him because of the Lamb's blood, and because of the word of their testimony." Revelation/Apocalypse 12:11.

"He is clothed in a garment sprinkled with blood." Revelation 19:13?

"in the book of life of the Lamb who has been killed." Revelation 13:8.

"These were redeemed by Jesus from among men" Rev 14:4.

flesh - spirit
circumcised flesh - circumcised heart
natural/old - new
666/6th day man - 888/8th day man
baker (sweat) - cupbearer (wine/blood)
cain - abel
lips - heart
slave - free
Sinai/Hagar - Calvary
law - grace
works - faith
works - first love
sacrifice - mercy
keep commandments - love/Me/My (comes first)
letter - spirit
copy/imitate - one/real/born/created
shallow - deep
external - internal (written in heart)
eyes - ears
knowledge puffs - love edifies
goats/wolves - sheep
tares (not bow) - wheat (bow)
sand - rock
bad soil - good soil
Mammon/world/man - God
Ophite - Setian


"What amazes me is this, that Xtians have the arrogance, nerve and audacity to believe that they know and can interpret the Holy Torah/Tanach and tell a Jew and/or a Rabbi what it means but they do err in forgetting that HaShem gave the Scriptures to th..."

1. No one denies that the bible is Jewish and Jews the chosen people, and so Jews will tend to better understand the bible than gentiles/goyim. However it is not true that only Judaist Jews and rabbis have the only best understanding over everyone else, and/or that Judaist Jews are all right gods and others are all wrong dogs. Jews might be the chosen people in historical genealogical descent, but they are not fully chosen if they are spiritually/religiously/Godily bad and not good. All humans are fallen/sinners including Jews. There are good Jews and bad Jews.
2. In the last 2000 years messianics and christians have included people of all races and all castes including Jews and rabbis. Even some secular top scholars/academics have agreed with some evidences.
Jesus was Jew and a rabbi and a najjar, of the royal line of David. His very works/miracles witnessed his truth.
Paul was a Jew and a pharisee and ex-persecutor or christians, of the tribe of Benjamin (possibly line of King Saul).
Nicodemus was a member of the sanhedrin.
Joseph of Arimathea was a prominent rich Jew.
John the Baptist was of the tribe of Levi and testified of Jesus.
Moreover it is opinion of many that all the old testament prophets from Abel to Malachai testified in forenowledge of the christ/messiah, including Moses.
Matthew/Levi although he was a publican of the tribe of Levi.
Luke was a doctor.
John was "of kindred to the high priest".
Nathanael was "a true Israeite indeed".
Some of Jesus' disciples was Zealots or Sicari.
Zaccheus was a prominent rich man.
Pontius Pilate said Jesus was a just man, and so did the soldier at the crucifiction. No one can accuse Jesus of harming any human in his life.
Both angels and demons/devils/evil spirits testified the Jesus was the christ. The 7 sons of Scaeva were prominent Jews who heard demon say he knew of Jesus and Paul but not them.
John the Baptist leaped in the womb, and saw the spirit descend like a dove on Jesus, and many people heard the voice from heaven.
Biblical Messianic/Christianity is biblical Judaism.
Some European kings have believed the evidences.
The bible also prophesied that some gentiles would be saved: eg the El of Japheth who shall have fellowship with Shem; eg Elishah "god of salvation"; eg Melchizedek? God made all 3 sons of Noah, all 3 nations.
Just because someone is a Jew and a rabbi doesn't mean then are superior infallible gods and others all just all wrong dumb dogs. Even experts can be wrong or lying and all humans are influenced by internal and external interests.
Genuine christians are always interested in the perspective and info of Jews and rabbis on the scriptures etc.
I have seen many posts by 'Judaism is not Christianity minus Jesus' where they outright twist meanings of Tanach verses. Jews can not put rabbinic works/traditions on the same level as the Torah/Tanach.
The Tanaach is able to interpret itself to some extant by cross-referencing many verses/parts.
Messianics also claim to have the holy spirit (of truth) which interprets or helps to understand the scriptures, and to know the author.
Furthermore one can see which side is more or less genuine by their attitude/behaviour/treatment/works/fruits.

'Judaism is not Christianity minus Jesus' on facebook has again posted a post with a picture with "88 reviews" in it. (It is in the image/picture so not just the views at that moment i saw it.)This proves they are liars because 88 = H(eil) H(itler) and no Jews of the sort they claim to be would subtly/semi-secretly support that (except nationalist Jews).
The post was about a book abot Paul being a Greek not a Jew and involved in the invention of Christianity, which is also similar to what Hitler and Borman spoke of.
The post has logo name "Prime" which is a Roman word suggesting Vatican is behind it?
(No doubt i open myself to more hell secret fluoridation and persecution etc, since they rule the world and control everything. But hey they have refusing to stop fluoridating me and stop one or two other mean cruel hell wrongs being done to me so may as well go down in a blaze. I am no coward like they are.)
(I agree with alot of nationalism. But this is an issue of outright lying and deception.)