For the last 3-4 years I've been suffering a constant ringing sound in my flat which goes constantly every second all day and night every day and night and can't be blocked out because the type/pitch of sound it is it penetrates fingers/plugs regardless. At first I thought it was plumbing in my flat/yard but plumbers have pretty much ruled that out and I afterwards/since found that it is almost certainly one or more neighbours heat pumps. For 3-4 years almost everyone has been purposely refusing to cooperate to find and fix the source (neighbours, council noise control, plumbers, acoustic consultants, lawyers, police). Not only have they all purposely refused and maed me suffer this all day every day for 3-4 years but they even dumped worse on me having me up under the Mental Health Act and compulsory community treatment. I have already posted on this long ongoing problem here and elsewhere a number of times, and sent numerous emails to everyone involved. This post is a further update in which I quote and comment on the city council environmental noise officer's report from last week's visit.
> Vlad, attached are the District Plan Noise Rules, noise survey sheet & noise
> readings taken from yesterday's site visit to confirm whether there was any
> noise present from your unit. The results show an Lmin 18.5 decibels (This
> is the lowest noise level detected) & L95 19.4 decibels (This is the
> background noise present 95% of the time).
How can you be sure the 19 decibels is background noise? I mean, since the ringing sound was the loudest sound I could hear and I couldn't hear any background noise surely the loudest sound recorded must be the ringing sound? You said yourself on the day that yous had no way to separate/distinguish/identify different sounds below 20 decibels.
> The LAFmax, LAeq & LA10 are not
> appropriate as this shows the noise measured from us talking, moving between
> rooms & writing notes on clip board (this accounts for the sudden peaks or
> spikes noted with the results on graph).
This is not very scientific accurate testing. To not have only the times when we were quiet and testing but the whole time from entering to leaving without any corresponding times notes.
But I have no problem with accepting the spikes are not valid. This ringing sound is constantly going and it would not just show sudden spikes.
> The results do not indicate the
> presence of unreasonable noise as sound measured below 20 decibels is
> considered very quiet i.e similar to a person breathing or whispering not
> what would be considered "unreasonable noise".
I do not agree that this ringing sound is as low as whispering or breathing, it sounds louder than that. The fact that it is comging from neigbours and penetrates walls and fingers/plugs proves it is louder or more powerful or higher frequency/pitch. I can block out most other sounds with fingers/plugs and sucking in my breath holding my nose to block my ears similar to when in aeroplane, and yet this ringing sound penetrates and can't be blocked out.
You can not just go by only decibels, you have to consider the frequency/pitch and power, and you have to consider the constant nonstop duration. Even someone whsipering constantly all the time every second all day andnight every day and night would get on anyones nerves.
Until I have proof what the decibels and frequency/pitch and power and source is you can't say it is reasonable. ANd remember the word picture I gave: I have a friend whose wife can hear dog whistles. If I harrassed her all day and night every day and night for 3-4 years constantly blowing the dog whistle every second it would be criminal nuissance and harrassment, and you "yes it would not be a violation of decibels".
Please consider these quotes from some brief initial web/net research:
"Manufacturers, installers and retailers have a community obligation to provide responsible advice and service to prevent noise nuisance." Auckland Council.
"and installers of heat pumps on how to prevent a noise nuisance. ... from the vicinity of neighbour's rooms, some degree of noise control is usually necessary." Auckland Council.
"Nelson council taken to task over 'noisy' heat pumps in quiet ..." stuff.co.nz
"Before installing a heat pump the effects of noise from the unit on your property, as well as neighbouring properties should be considered." tas.gov.au
"Before installing a heat pump consider the effects noise from the unit may have on yourself and your neighbors." eugene-or.gov
"An introduction to environmental law relating to assessment of external heat pump noise and some common mitigation methods at the design and installation stage are presented." Lindsay Hannah NZ Acoustics journal 22/4.
"It also has pipes that transfer the hot and cold liquid to the inside fan. These often vibrate, which isn't a problem if one is in a stand-alone house, but with flats, the vibrations will vibrate through the timber framing and walls."
"But because an outdoor heat exchanger can make a very deep low sound, it can penetrate walls and insulation much more than a higher tone such as music. This makes the decibel rating harder to use as an assessment tool."
"Section 326 of the resource management act defines excessive noise as 'any noise that is under human control and interferes with the peace, comfort and convenience of any person'. Without any set times, but a reasonable expectation of activity is allowed - such as short loud bursts of noise for construction etc." Lindsay Hannah NZ Acoustics journal 22/4.
"the RMA is more a common sense/disturbing the peace based limit rather than a decibel rating." Lindsay Hannah NZ Acoustics journal 22/4.
"No noise assessment is possible if it is not clear whether the quoted decibel level is a sound power rating or a sound pressure level." Lindsay Hannah NZ Acoustics journal 22/4.
"This means that audibility of the heat pump sound is often more important than the absolute level of noise present."
"In addition to ensuring the overall sound pressure level complies with the permitted District Plan noise rules, the content of the sound, e.g. frequency spectrum, must also be considered. Not all sound pressure levels are equally loud. Human hearing does not respond equally to all frequencies. Our ears are much more sensitive to sounds in the frequency range approx 1 kHz to 4 kHz than to very low or high frequency sounds." Lindsay Hannah NZ Acoustics journal 22/4.
"The human range is commonly given as 20 to 20,000 Hz, although there is considerable variation between individuals, especially at high frequencies.... Sensitivity also varies with frequency, as shown by equal-loudness contours." Wikipedia hearing range
"The commonly stated range of human hearing is 20 to 20,000 Hz. Under ideal laboratory conditions, humans can hear sound as low as 12 Hz and as high as 28 kHz.... Individual hearing range varies according to the general condition of a human's ears and nervous system."
"Trane XB 10 makes a high pitch ringing sound"
"HVAC is making a ringing noise, similar to the sound of ringing in y[our ears]"
"Ringing sound throughout apartment will cause a mental breakdown if not solved"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/9dhpyo/ringing_sound_throughout_apartment_will_cause_a/
> While onsite both myself and my colleague Dave G... (Environmental
> Technical Officer) did note several heat pumps located outside the
> neighbouring block of flats (Redwood Flats 15 Ebdentown Street) & one heat
> pump outside of flat 5 17 Ebdentown Street (next door). We observed one
> heat pump that was on (through seeing the fan spin) at the Redwood Flats we
> could not hear any sound coming from the heat pump while making our
> assessment at your unit.
I am sure I remember you saying you could hear the pump, but I might be mistaken. In any case the fact that the pump was going means it is possible source.
> As you have stated the "ringing sound" that you
> are experiencing appears to be constant & you still experience the noise
> even when all of the heat pumps have been off (as during the occasion when
> all of the power to the block of flats was cut off).
I never said "all" the pumps were off. Yes this block of flats power was cut off for hours one day months ago but there is only one pump in this block, the other pumps are in neighbouring blocks on either side (as I showed in the photo and diagram).
> Heat pumps typically
> do not generate enough energy to cause vibration through a block of flats
> especially if not connected to the building as in the case of the pumps
> located at 15 Ebdentown Street the noise you are experiencing is unlikely to
> be coming from heat pumps.
Excuse me but are you an expert in all relevant and related fields including acoustics, heat pumps, etc?
Prove it! How come I have to prove every darn word I say but all yous can get away with mere opinions and never have to prove anything?
Excuse me but even though flat 5's pump is not attached to the wall it is still linked by pipes, wires etc.
The pumps in the neighbouring block of flats are not connected to this block but they are all facing this way and I showed in photograph and diagram how the two parallel blocks of 5 flats are surely an acoustic nightmare sound trap with sounds echoing/ricocheting between the two blocks of flats separated by less than 8 meters.
All the evidences of 3-4 years is that the ringing sound is one or more neighbours heat pumps.
There is nothing else anywhere around that it can be. The only other thing it could be is plumbing but plumbers and me are 90 something percent certain itis not plumbing leaking/running.
The sound began when neighbours got heat pump. The sound goes through louder and quieter periods just like pumps cycles periods. It is generally louder when cold and quieter when warm, just like pumps. Ringing sound similar to sound the fan blades make in my bathroom. Flat 5's pump is often so loud at nights it sounded like a factory until I found out it was the pump. WHen I listened outside about midnight a week ago the ringing sound did seem synchronised with the pump sounds.
The only way to prove it is not pumps is to turn off each of the pumps and power of each flat in this block and in number 15 (and number 19?) for 15 minutes to see if I can still hear the sound. And even then it might not prove it because it might be more than one pump in succession.
Again consider some of these quotes I already posted above:
"Before installing a heat pump consider the effects noise from the unit may have on yourself and your neighbors." eugene-or.gov
"It also has pipes that transfer the hot and cold liquid to the inside fan. These often vibrate, which isn't a problem if one is in a stand-alone house, but with flats, the vibrations will vibrate through the timber framing and walls."
"But because an outdoor heat exchanger can make a very deep low sound, it can penetrate walls and insulation much more than a higher tone such as music. This makes the decibel rating harder to use as an assessment tool."
"No noise assessment is possible if it is not clear whether the quoted decibel level is a sound power rating or a sound pressure level." Lindsay Hannah NZ Acoustics journal 22/4.
"Trane XB 10 makes a high pitch ringing sound"
"HVAC is making a ringing noise, similar to the sound of ringing in y[our ears]"
"Ringing sound throughout apartment will cause a mental breakdown if not solved"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/9dhpyo/ringing_sound_throughout_apartment_will_cause_a/
> The issue with the noise you are experiencing appears to be confined to
> inside your flat; as you have stated the noise does not appear to be as loud
> outside
This is not definite scientific proof. Yes the sound is mainly only inside my flat but occasionally I can also hear it just outside the back door or outside the flat close to the flats but not any further away. However, I have not had access to the other flats in this block or other neighbours flats to say if the sound can or can't also be heard in them.
> but you have also been able to hear the sound when sitting in a car
> in Porirua or being at a different location such as your Uncle's flat.
I did not say "the sound" I said "a similar sound", and I said I was very "unsure" about the one in Porirua (just "possibly" and "very faint").
I have heard a similar sound at my half uncle's (not "uncle's") flat, but it is not the same sound/source.
There are heat pumps all over the place so it is quite possible that I can hear a similar sound in some other places.
I have not heard this or similar sound anywhere else except this flat/block, my half uncle Eric's, one room in the mental ward, and possibly in car in Porirua, but nowhere else. All places were similar situations and fairly probably had heat pumps. And I have never suffered any similar constant hell sound in my whole life.
> Council's District Plan noise limits do not apply to the source site
> therefore any noise emanating from your flat i.e noisy plumbing, electrical
> appliances etc does not come under our jurisdiction (any noise sources from
> your flat are your responsibility).
I have already stated that although I hear the sound inside my flat it is 90 something percent certain it is not coming from any electrical or plumbing inside my flat or yard and is 90 something percent certain it is coming from other neighbours.
My power has been switched off numerous times and the ringing sound was still going.
There is nothing else in my flat or yard it can be except plumbing, and plumbers and me have found no leaks anywhere in my flat or yard so we are 90 something percent certain it is not plumbing inside my yard or flat.
You ignore that I am in a block of 5 flats and have very close blocks of flats on either side so my flat is not the only possible source. I have no way to prove the source in neighbours without neighbours cooperation or without acoustic consultants cooperation.
All the evidence if not absolute proof is the sound is coming from neigbours not my flat/yard, and I have plumbers as witnesses. Your own council noise test claims no sound above 29 decibels in my flat.
(And even if it were my flat how can I find and fix the source when everyone keeps purposely messing me around refusing to cooperate to find and fix the source? Acoustic consultants, plumbers, etc have mostly all messed me around refusing to even take the jobs.)
> As Acoustic Engineer James Whitlock
> (Marshall Day) has suggested the issue appears to be around source
> identification as opposed to noise compliance
Plumbers and me have already proven it is nothing electrical or plumbing in my flat or yard, therefore it is from neighbours. All evidence is it must be and can only be one or more pumps in neighbours, there is nothing else it can be.
Because I am in a block of 5 flats with attached neigbours, and because there are very close neighbouring blocks of flats on either side, I can not prove the source without the cooperation of neighbours, plumbers, acoustic consultants, etc. But everyone keeps purposely refusing to cooperate. This is a very clever cunning lying tactic saying I have to prove it first but knowing I can't prove it without others cooperation because it is from neighbours and because others purposely refusing to cooperate.
It is darn well so a compliance issue not just source identification. Because even if/when we are able to prove the source your council will still refuse to take action because you'll still say its not loud enough decibels. So sure as hell even if/when I prove it (if acoustic consultants etc stop refusing to take the job) youll say I have to find ways to block it out of my flat instead of telling the neighbours to sound barrier the source.
> as well as moving into areas
> of personal health away from acoustics.
This is a cunning bloody unfair untrue lying insult. Anyone who had a constant ringing sound going all day and night every day and night for 3-4 years which can't be blocked out and which everyone keeps purposely refusing to cooperate to find and fix/stop would experience "mental/health" stress. Yous can notprove that the ringing sound and other wrongs being/been done to me are not true/real and/or are natural/normal/fair/good/just/right/accepatable, and you can not prove that I am mental or that these wrongs are all just mental.
Consider this example from reddit "ringing sound throughout apartment will cause a mental breakdown if not solved".
I've heard people complain just because it rained for a few weeks. I've seen people complain about their mental health just because of covid lockdown. They say people are happier on fine/clear/sunny days and in summer and are sadder in overcast days and in winter. I've heard a number of people say how they find constant tinnitis not easy to live with. Yet I have suffered and survived far worse hell for decades that none of these people would even survive. And you say I am mental?
Mental health services could do nothing to help in 17 months under compulsory assessment and treatment (medication). Medication doesn't stop the sound or lessen the hell problems it causes.
Yous are just passing the parcel and seeking the easiest "self" solution. Its easier and suits your interests to just falsely accuse me as being mental and evade others responsiblities and my rights. Because you know I have no easy way to prove it is not "mental" or prove the sound is not real without others cooperation.
> Given that we have not been able to determine a noise source or confirm the
> presence of any noise through last week's meter readings and the previous
> site visit (with Jane L... from City Mission) I recommend the following:
What is the name and type and brand of meter you used? What frequencies does it pick up?
You said you couldn't separate/distinguish/identify different sounds below 20 decibels.
You said there was 18-19 decibels sound detected.
The meter report says you used
Soundmeter B&K 2250 No 2473293
Microphone B&K 4189 No 2469918
Calibrator B&K type 4230 No 90789
B&K website pdf says this meter covers 0.5-20 kHz
But human hearing is 20 to 20000 Hz or 12 Hz to 28 kHz.
(You never did any tests on the previous visit other than possibly just briefly listening.)
> * That you seek the advice of an acoustic consultant to assess your
> flat for the noise source i.e plumbing, electrical etc.
I have tried a number of acoustic consultants already so far but they all refused to take the job. How can I do anything when everyone keeps messing me around refusing to do jobs?
Even if they can prove the sound and find the source you authorities will still refuse to take any action to make the neighbours stop the source, and sure as hell you'll just say I have to block it out of my flat or shift instead of telling neighbours they have to sound barrier or fix their pumps which are causing the sound.
If they stop refusing to take the job, Acoustic consultants can only help prove the sound is real, prove what frequency and loudness it is, and maybe what the source is. They can't tell the neighbours to stop refusing to cooperate to fix the source.
They can not access the neigbours flats or properties without permissions.
Why should I have to pay hundreds or thousands because of neighbours heat pumps?
Plumbers tests and my tests have prtty much proven that this sound is not any plumbing in my flat or yard.
I have proven itis not electrical in my flat.
It is impossible it is anything in my flat unless plumbers are mistaken. That I sometimes heard it faintly close to the walls at places around this block means it is not just in my flat but is echoing/resounding/ricocheting through the whole block.
> * Arrange for an audiologist to carry out assessment of your hearing
> to determine whether there are any problems.
I have already arranged for this (after being messed around for months by the audiologists refusing to reply and refusing to make appointments), but as I have already emphatically stated numerous times, there is totally no doubts to me from hundreds of experiences and evidneces over the last 3-4 years that this constant ringing sound is not in my ears or head, and I am also fairly satisfied that nor is it just over-sensitivity (though my right ear is certainly more sensitive to it than my left ear and some brief visitors allegedly could not hear the ringing sound only briefly listening during the day). I am only doing the tests (at alot of personal hassle/trouble) to prove to all you adamant deniers and sceptics that the sound is not in my head/ears. (And at a personal risk since the ear wax cleaners could damage my ears. They have to remove any wax in order to do ears checks and hearing tests.)
Even when I get the proof it still won't make any difference because you authorities will still refuse to do anything.
> * Continue to meet with City Mission Social Workers to address your
> concerns.
Since Jane retired as their social worker the new social worker only came once and she said mental health services were more appropriate and that they couldn't help. So they have cut me off.
You know they can't do anything to stop the ringing sound except possibly as an advocate/mediator to neighbours.
> In summary I consider this matter to be now closed based on the findings
> from both site visits (not being able to confirm a noise source) and we will
> not undertake any further investigations into this matter.
You did not do any tests on the first site visit except possibly just listening.
I hope someday in future that yous suffer a constant sound going every second all day and night every day and night for 3-4 years which can't be blocked out with fingers/ears (because the type/pitch of sound it is it penetrates regardless) and which everyone purposely refuses to cooperate to find and fix, and then we will see if you still think/feel the same way then.
> Regards
> Jeremy P...
> Senior Environmental Health Officer
>
> Te Kaunihera o Te Awa Kairangi ki Uta | Upper Hutt City Council
> 838 - 842 Fergusson Drive, Private Bag 907, Upper Hutt 5140, New Zealand
> D: +64 4 527 2169 | M: +64 27 242 9282 | T: +64 4 527 2169 |
> W: www.upperhuttcity.com | F:
> www.fb.com/UpperHuttCityCouncil
> [cid:image001.gif@01D72242.5A0DAAB0] https://letskorero.upperhuttcity.com/upper-hutt-starts-with-u
From the council rules for noise and vibration:
"32.7 Matters for Consideration
Matters that may be relevant in the consideration of any resource consent may include the following:
Noise and vibration
• The length of time, and the level by which, the standards will be exceeded, particularly at night, and the likely disturbance that may be caused.
• The nature and location of nearby activities and the effects they may experience.
• The topography of the site, and the neighbouring areas, and any influence this may have on noise or vibration transmission.
• The effects on residential activities, particularly night time effects.
• Any opportunities to avoid, remedy or mitigate the noise or vibration.
• The effectiveness of, and in particular the certainty provided by, any conditions or controls that might be imposed on the activity."
These matters for consideration apply to the ringing sound here.
* length of time: this sound goes constantly all day and night every day and night for 3-4 yrs so far. The frequency/pitch.
* activities and effects: constantly stopping me from being able to to my studies, and from concentrating/thinking when doing things like getting ready to go out. Sometimes stops me sleeping.
* topography of the site: They have ignored the photos and diagrams I sent which show the sounds are surely echoing/ricocheting/resounding between the 2 blocks of flats.
* opportunities to avoid/fix: I have no easy ways to avoid the sound all day every day, it can't be blocked out with fingers/plugs. The neighbours and council refuse to cooperate to find and fix the source. Neighbours could easily put sound barriers around their pumps and other sound blocking/dampening measures.
By the way. Who set the 40/45/50/55/60/65/70/75/85/90 decibels levels of noise? These are just man-made artificial settings. The people who made these settings are not God or gods. I see no evidences or proofs that the "un/acceptable" set levels are natural or created true accurate levels, regardless if they claim to be experts or consensus convention. And they say nothing about frequency/pitch or duration or power, proximity, etc.
