Thursday, September 24, 2020

Jacob = Khufu update


Updates on my Khufu = Jacob thesis.

Contents:
17 yrs match disputed.
Dates match disputed.
Fathers match disputed.
Meaning match disputed.
Names similarity disputed.
Not King match disputed.
Pyramids match disputed.
Goshen match disputed.
God match disputed.

Khufu's 17 yrs matching Jacob's 17 yrs.

There has been a new change in the conventional information and ideas on the length of Khufu's reign. Conventional scholars now claim that Khufu's highest year is 14 not 17. They say that the 17 yrs inscription of Petrie and Hawass can not be found and so may not have existed. This of course means it is possible that our match of Khufu's 17 yrs & Jacob's 17 yrs might not be a match. However it is not definite that the 17 yrs inscription didn't exist.

These are all the suggestions for Khufu's reign length:
63 yrs (Manetho)
50 yrs (Herodotus)
"46 yrs" (one modern orthodox cattle-count theory?)
41-58 (32-34 + 4-5 &/or 5-10 to finish pyramid)
32-34 yrs (Great Pyramid inscription taken as bienniel cattle-count)
26/27 yrs (Dakhla inscription taken as bienniel cattle-count)
24-29 yrs (17 + 4-5 &/or 5-10 to finish pyramid)
24/23 yrs (Turin King List)
20 yrs (building pyr Herodotus, Hemiunu's tomb as bienniel)
17 yrs (Great Pyramid relieving chamber inscription inscription taken verbatim) *
16 yrs (Lepsius lithograph at Dahshur)? *
15 yrs (Hemiunu's tomb as bienniel)
14/13 yrs (Dakhla inscription & Journal of Merer, Jarf Papyrii taken verbatim) *
10 yrs (building pyr ramp Herodotus)
8-10 yrs (Hemiunu's tomb) * .

Only the 4 asterisked ones are contemporary records, all the others are only much later sources.

The highest year is 17 but this is doubted because Petries' and Hawas' are said to not be able to be found.
So the conventional view is that the next highest year 14 is the highest.

As far as I can see it is not definite that Petries and Hawas' inscription didn't exist, though it is doubted.

If the 17 yrs inscription existed then it could match exactly with Jacob's 17 yrs since it is not certain that it was a  bienniel cattle count.
If the 17 yrs didn't exist (which is not definite) then Khufu's highest year is 14 though he could have reigned more, and it could still match Jacob (since it is not certain it is a bienniel cattle count) but it wouldn't be as an exact strong a match.

Other than the possible 17 yrs match there are also a number of other matches between Khufu & Jacob, like for example their similar names have exaclty the same meanings.

Khufu's date vs Jacob's date:

Joseph's biblical based date has ranged in sources from 1980 bc, to 1876 bc, to 1749/1727-1658 bc (Jerome), to 1706 bc (Usher, Oxford), to 1657/1635 bc (NWT), to 1647/1621 (Compton)? to 900 bc (PSBA)? (But the PSBA is not really biblical.)

Khufu's &/or the 4th dynasty's &/or the Great Pyramid's &/or Sphinx's date has ranged in various sources from "150,000" yrs ago (some believe), to "73,300" yrs ago (Balkhi), to "10,000 yrs bc" (Pyrmamidology), to Age of Leo/Cancer (Hancock, Tomas), to 7000-5000 bc (Schoch), to "4731" (Petrie), to "3733" (Bey), to 2900-2750 (Breasted, Berlin), to "The boat of Khufu dates 200 years before Egyptological date of pyramids built", 2780 (charcoal date), to "2690", to 27th cent bc / 2613-2498/2494 (Shaw, Clayton), to 2610 (roasted locust carbon date), to 2604-2572, to 2483 ("Journal of Merer, Jarf papyrii"), to "Kate Spence's astronomical work says Khufu's pyramid should be  dated 50 years the other way from the historical date ... in other words 250 years lower than the radiocarbon date", to 2144/2140 (astronomical?), to "1726-1703/1699/1663" (Hoeh), to "838" bc (Newton), to "not before 800 ad" (Fomenko)?

Critics claim that the conventional dates of Jacob ("1700s" bc) and Khufu (""2600s-2400s" bc) don't match and so Jacob can't be Khufu.

However the conventional Egyptian chronology has no real proofs of their ascribed dates of the dynasties. All their dating methods have problems and are unreliable (carbon dating, Siriadic/Sothaic dating, Apis bulls, Venus tablets, etc). Even the Assyrian king list which is one of the main pillars of Egyptian chronology is not proof. Critics are always attacking sources like the Bible, Herodotus, the Atlantis Account, etc as unreliable and yet they then treat sources like the Egyptian king lists and Assyrian king list as infallibly reliable.

Counting downwards/forwards:
Joseph & Jacob are early in overall biblical history, they are in the 1st book of the bible, and they were only the 12th & 13th generation after the Flood, and only 292/352/427 + 215 yrs after the Flood.
There is no trace of the flood during Egyptian dynastic history, so the dynasties must all come after the Flood (and after Babel?)
Even if some people argue that the Flood may not have been global, the Flood is also found in Egyptian, eg: Flood of Ra/Hathor/Sekhmet, Flood of Atum, Flood of Thoth, Nun the primeval watery chaos, Osiris saved from water, Bennu/Phoenix associated with flood, Siriadic land/columns, Surid 300 yrs before flood, deluge of Atlantis, Inundation the 1st of the 3 seasons. The only ones during dynastic history were those of Surid and Atlantis and the Great Flood can't/doesn't match them.
Turin King List has 955 yrs 1st-8th dynasties.
Book of Sothis king list 700/955 yrs 1st-13/15/17th dynasties.
Syncellus has 8 demigods for 217 years before 15 generations for 443 years before 16th dynasty.
Jewish tradition has Flood in 1656/1307 am and Exodus in 2666/2450 am, which gives 1000 yrs from the Flood to the Exodus, which with 292/352/427 yrs from the Flood to Abraham and 215 yrs Abraham to Jacob/Joseph implies 600 yrs from Abraham to Moses with 400 yrs from Jacob/Joseph to the Exodus.
Oxford has 857 or 1048 yrs from Flood to the Exodus, with either 215 or 430 yrs from Jacob/Joseph to the Exodus.
So Joseph comes before the 8th or 13th (or 15th or 16th or 17th) dynasty.
The Flood is 2348 in Usher from the Massoretic, or 3155 in Hales from the Septuagint.
Thus Joseph is less than 1/3rd of the way between the Flood and 1/0 bc/ad.
There are (2 +) 33 (+ Roman) dynasties. Dynasties 25 to 33 (+ Romans) all fall within the known Assyrian to Roman period.
Critics putting Joseph in the 12th or 15th or 18th dynasties have Joseph over a 1/3rd or almost 1/2 way or over 1/2 the way through overall dynastic history.
Even if one accepts the conventional date of 3100/3000 bc for the 1st dynasty, the 12th dynasty is more years from the 1st dynasty than Joseph is from the Flood.

Counting backwards/upwards:
Joseph & Jacob were 430 + 480 yrs before Solomon of ca 900s bc.
So in the conventional chronology Joseph/Jacob can't be later than the 12th dynasty. The conventional argument that the 480 yrs might only be 12 generations is only a theory while the bible only says 480 yrs.
Moreover, the Egyptian chronology is too long/old and the biblical is to short/late. All Egyptian dynasties must come after the Flood. If Abraham was in the 11th-12th dynasty as conventional chronology would have it then they have no matches with biblical before then. Joseph was only the 13th generation after the Flood. Putting Joseph in the 12th or 15th or 18th dynasty as rivals contend means they have to squeeze in 11 or 14 or 17 dynasties between the Flood and Joseph. So the true dates of the dynasties must be later, which puts Joseph/Jacob earlier than the 12th dynasty.
Even conventional sources say that the dates of the EDP & Old Kingdom may still be out by a few centuries and the tendency is to revise dates down.

Herodotus said Moeris (12th dyn) was only 900 yrs before [Amasis 2].

Evidences for 1st dynasty being late 2000s bc include:
The 1st dynasty may date to the age of Taurus which ranges from 4000s-2000s bc.
Tacitus said there were only 4 Phoenixes in Egyptian dynastic bc history, and he had a phoenix as 500 yrs.
1st dynasty must come after the Flood, after Mizraim, and after Babel? The 10 god-kings recall the 10 patriarchs of Bible and 10 antediluvian kings of the Sumerian King List. God kings before mortal kings recalls longevity before Abraham and before Flood.
Abraham's famine and plague(s) may match famine and plague(s) in mid to late 1st dynasty.
Joseph has many matches with the 2nd/3rd-4th/5th dynasties. Jacob surely matches Khufu/Cheops (similar name, exact same meaning, both 17yrs, both 2/3/4 wives, similar number of sons, similar daughter, both not buried in Egypt, both in Goshen/Giza/Ergesher/Agouza, Khufu's father only "possibly" Sneferu, similar couch/bed? etc). Models of granaries in Old Kingdom Tombs suggests Joseph's storehouses were already around by then.
Herodotus said Menes was (1)1340 yrs before Seti, Josephus said Menes was 1300 yrs before Solomon/Shishak of 1000s/900s bc, which gives a date of ca 2300s bc for Menes and makes Seti & Shishak roughly contemporary. (Although Josephus said elsewhere that Menes was along time before Abraham there are possible explanations for this.)
Herodotus said Moeris (12th dyn) was only 900 yrs before [Amassis 2 or Amyrtaeus or Herodotus), which makes the 12th dynasty about the same time as Moses of ca 1400s bc.
The FIP is a lacuna of uncertain length.
The Sothaic/Siriadic calendar was supposedly introduced between 4241 and 2871/2773 bc. There is no known Siriadic/Sothaic date for the Old Kingdom (though there was a new claim of one found for the 1st dynasty a couple of years ago).
The date of the 1st dynasty has ranged from 11340 yrs bc (Herodotus) to 5867 (Champollion) to 5600/5510 (Petrie) to 4455/4400 (Bey) to 3400 (Breasted, Berlin) to 3200 (Meyer, Steindorff) to 3200/3180 (Meyer) to 3150/3050 (Clayton) to 3100 (Alford) to 3000 (Shaw) to 3000/2999/2949-2952/2902/2900 (Beckerath) to 2900 ("newest research", Ceram) to "no later than 2850" (Lissner) to not before 2399/2300 (Josephus, Bristowe) to 2320 (Wilkinson) to 2254/2222 (Hoeh) to 2224 (Palmer) bc to 1125-946 (Newton) to not before 800 ad (Fomenko)? Only a few decades ago the date was dropped "400 yrs" from 3400 to 3100 bc and is now 3000 bc (Shaw) (though some still prefer 3400 to 3100/3000), though previously it was said "newest research" suggested not earlier than 2900 bc or no later than 2850 having been "recently pushed back again", which shows how fluid and uncertain the dates are.
Some scholars have dated the 1st dynasty to 2000s bc (including Josephus, Bristowe, Wilkinson, Palmer, Hoeh).
"1663 years Egyptian state lasted before Cambyses [525 bc]"?
Conventional sources say the dates of the EDP or OK may still be upto a few hundred years out and the tendency is to revise the dates down (refs incl Clayton, Wiki, Velikovsky).
The conventional ascribed theoretical dates of the dynasties are only theory and not definitely proven, and their dating methods all have problems and are not as reliable as people are made to believe.
The only date common to all the above is the late 2000s bc.

The FIP is a lacuna of uncertain length.

Shechem is mentioned in 12th dynasty Execration Texts, and in the bible Shechem is founded by Hamor &  Shechem in the time of Jacob, so Jacob can't be after the 12th dynasty. Two Jacob names in the Hyksos period (Yaqubhar & Yakobaam) and the name Jacob-el in the 18th & 19th dynasties suggests Jacob was before then.

Khufu's father & Jacob's father.

Some critics are still claiming that Khufu son of Sneferu can't match Jacob son of Isaac. The answer is still that some conventional sources admit that Sneferu is only "most possibly" Khufu's father, "or stepfather" (Wikipedia). "We believe that Khufu was the son of Sneferu".

"Khufui, the Kheops of the Greeks, was probably son of Snofrui." (Maspero.)
"The story in the "Westcar" papyrus speaks of Snofrui as father of Khufui; but this is a title of honour, and proves nothing. The few records which we have of this period give one, however, the impression that Kheops was the son of Snofrui, and, in spite of the hesitation of de Rouge, this affiliation is adopted by the majority of modern historians." (Maspero.)

"It is uncertain if Khufu was actually the biological son of Sneferu. Mainstream Egyptologists believe Sneferu was Khufu's father, but only because it was handed down by later historians that the eldest son or a selected descendant would inherit the throne. In 1925 the tomb of queen Hetepheres I, G 7000x, was found east of Khufu's pyramid. It contained many precious grave goods, and several inscriptions give her the title Mut-nesut (meaning "mother of a king"), together with the name of king Sneferu. Therefore, it seemed clear at first that Hetepheres was the wife of Sneferu, and that they were Khufu's parents. More recently, however, some have doubted this theory, because Hetepheres is not known to have borne the title Hemet-nesut (meaning "king's wife"), a title indispensable to confirm a queen's royal status. Instead of the spouse's title, Hetepheres bore only the title Sat-netjer-khetef (verbatim: "daughter of his divine body"; symbolically: "king's bodily daughter"), a title mentioned for the first time. As a result, researchers now think Khufu may not have been Sneferu's biological son, but that Sneferu legitimised Khufu's rank and familial position by marriage." (Wikipedia.)

Hetephires is likewise admitted to be only "most possibly" Khufu's mother.

Meaning of Khufu & meaning of Jacob:

Some critics have claimed that Jacob's and Khufu's names have different meanings and so don't match.

According to Adrian Room a top expert linguist Jacob(-el)'s name means "(may El/God) protect" or aqeb/akaiv "heel(-catcher)" or aqab "to usurp, supplanter", both in Hebrew, and the expert favours the protect meaning over the supplanter one. A critic has claimed that Jacob means "the god El will reward" or "he will reward" in Hebrew (though someone said they were using "a verb for supplant"), and another critic claimed Jacob could possibly be Ia-qeb(hu) "Yah is refreshed" in Egyptian. Yet another critic said Jacob could connected with chob/chabab/yechubbah "to hide".
Similarly conventional sources say Yaqub-har means "the god Har watches over". A critic has claimed that Yakub-har means "Jacob hath (had)".
According to expert conventional sources (Khnum-)Khufu's name means "protected (by the god Khnum), (Khnum) protect me". A critic has claimed that Khufu's name means "Khnum refreshes Khufu, or Khufu refreshes Khnum".

However, the fact remains that the meanings of Khufu & Jacob in expert sources are the same. Also one critics "refresh" meanings of Khufu and Jacob also match.
Khnum is a similar creator/potter god to El/Yah.

Similarity of names Khufu & Jacob/Yakov.

A critic has claimed that Khufu's name does not read (Khnum-)Khufu but reads Mezed Khnumn Khufu or Merhet-bakhuf or Merhet Ba Khnum (Aau Aa) or Qebhu Ba (Khnumn) Khufu? However, all my conventional sources have the name rendered as (Khnum-)Khufu and (Horus) Medjedu/Mezed.

Jacob is Yakov in Hebrew.

Khufu's name is variously written:
(Hnmw-/Khnum-/Noh-) Hfw/H-wj=f-w(j) / Khufu/Khuf/Kheufu/Khuifwi/Khufwey/Khayafwi(y) / Chufu/Chefu/Cheops / Xeops / Shufu/Suphis/Souphis/Sofe, or Chnoubos.

The khuf & cob/kov are similar.

Hawass claimed that his name was Khnum-Khufu and that Khufu is only a shortened nickname. However his nomen or birth name is Khufu with Khnum-Khufu as an alternative form, and his throne name is just Khufu. His name in the Abydos & Saqqara king lists is just Khufu, and in Herodotus just Cheops. His pyramid's name is Akhet/Khut(-Khufu). The name in the Great Pyramid is Reufu. So it is not certain that Khufu is only a nickname. And even if it is, (Khnum-)Khufu still may match Jacob(-el) or "(the mighty one of) Jacob".

"The existence of the two cartouches Khufui and Khnumu-Khufui on the same monuments has caused much embarrassment to Egyptologists...." (Maspero.)

A critic claimed that the name Yakub-har shows that Jacob is Yaqub in Egyptian not Khufu. They also said Jacob is found in Greek as Iakob not Cheops. Possible answers to these criticisms are:
Greek is very late.
Yakub-har might really be Yabeq-her. Yakubhar is not Egyptian but Hyksos/foreign. Yakub-har does not prove that Jacob could only be Yakub in Egyptian, no one can be certain there is only one rendering. The 14th/15th/16th dynasty is a long time after Jacob was in Egypt (4th dyn). There is no denying that Jacob & Khufu are similar (khuf & cob/kov), and that the names have exact same meaning, and that Khufu & Jacob have quite a few matches (similar names, same meanings, both 17 yrs, both in Goshen/Giza, both 2/3/4 wives, both similar number of sons, etc). Khufu was just an Egyptian name for Jacob similar to Jacob with same meaning. Hebrews are known for adopting different names in other nations/cultures. Roman christians did similar name puns.
No one else has found any other candidate match for Jacob in Egyptian history.

"king Khufu doesn't match non-king Jacob".

Critics reject our Khufu = Jacob match because they say Khufu was a pharaoh and Jacob wasn't.
However, it is not definite that Khufu really was a pharaoh/king, and/or it is not definite that Jacob wasn't considered to be a king of sorts.

Khufu might not have really been a pharaoh/king:
What real proof do we have the Khufu really was a king/pharaoh? The only reasons he is considered to be a king are because he appears in some king lists and is a king in some sources like Herodotus, he has a cartouche name, he has a Horus name, he is shown wearing the red crown, he has a pyramid, he was supposedly son of Sneferu. But each of these are not definite evidence.
- Conventional scholars are always dismissing sources like the bible and Herodotus and Atlantis Account as supposedly unreliable yet they then accept sources like the Egyptian king lists and Assyrian king list as infallible truth. Six of the 10 main king lists are pretty late a long time after the 4th dynasty. One king list ends before the 4th dynasty. Khufu doesn't appear in the Gaza king list. The compilers of the king lists might not have been so literally precisely truthful about who was a king and they might have included a few people like Joseph who ruled over all the land of Egypt.
- Khufu is erased or missing in the Turin king list.
- Some non-kings names appear in Cartouches, though usually royal family members.
- Some Horus names like Sekhemhet do not appear in king lists.
- Not all pyramids belong to pharoahs/kings, some belong to queens etc. It is only theory that Pyramids are pharaohs tombs. Also some dispute the attribution of the Great Pyramid to Khufu.
- Sneferu is only thought by conventional scholarship as "we believe" he is "most possibly" Khufu's father "or stepfather". Manetho has Seris before Khufu not Sneferu.
- Manetho is not reliable. One scholar reckons Suphis is Suhes not Khufu/Shufu.
- Herodotus etc said the Egyptians hated the 4th dynasty pyramid builders, which implies a memory of different ethnicity.
- The Great Pyramid is said to be Khufu's. Herodotus says the shepherd Philitis "lover of righteousness" dwelt at Giza in the 4th dynasty and the pyramids were called/named after him, which seems to confirm Jacob & Philitis & Khufu are the same person.
- Se-ra/Sa-re "son of Re/Ra/sun" only started from Redjedef's reign?
- The red crown could stand for Canaan or Goshen.
- There are quite a number of matches between Jacob and Khufu that it is hard to dismiss that they are the same person.
- "The story about the alleged "Sacred Book" is questioned by modern Egyptologists, for it would be highly unusual that a pharaoh wrote books...."

Jacob might have been considered to be a king of sorts:
- Jacob was father of Joseph who ruled over all the land of Egypt second only to pharaoh.
- Jacob dwelt in Goshen the best of all the land of Egypt (and/or one scholar reckons he dwelt on pharaoh's land.
- Jacob was embalmed/mummified like pharoahs were. This may also imply that he had a pyramid?
Herodotus says the pyramids were named after the shepherd Philitis who dwelt at Giza then.
- Jacob was patriarch of the Hebrews in Egypt.
- "All the servants of pharaoh and all the older men of Egypt" went up with the funeral byre.

Pyramids connection with Joseph/Jacob.

Some critics assert that Jacob can't be Khufu because the pyramids were only pharaohs' tombs.
However, it is not certain that pyramids were only pharaohs' tombs. It is only theory that they were pharaohs' tombs, and some give evidence that they may not have been.
Some pyramids where of queens etc.
Sekhemhet has a pyramid but Sekhemhet was not necessarily a king.
Sneferu is supposed to have had 4 pyramids (Red, Bent, Meidum, ...) which seems odd.

There are a number of possible connections of the pyramids with Jacob and Joseph including:

- The word masteba is mentioned in the bible.
- The "eternal mountains" of Joseph in Genesis 49 could match the pyramids.
- Jacob was embalmed/mummified which might imply a pyramid. Joseph was also placed in a coffin which might also imply a pyramid.
- The Step Pyramid &/or Great Pyramid are similar to Jacob's Ladder.
- Herodotus said the pyramids were named after the shepherd Philitis who dwelt at Giza then.
- One scholar says the Hebrews were the Pillar People (matching Pyramid Builders).
- Some have suggested the pyramids where Joseph's storehouses. Alford suggested that water may be the answer to the mystery of the Great Pyramid's function. This might somehow connect with Joseph's famine?
- The Bent Pyramid may represent the 7 yrs plenty and 7 yrs famine?
- Jacob dwelt in the land of Goshen or land of Rameses. The name Pyramid resembles (Pi-)Ramses. The name Ramses was found in 3rd & 4th dynasty sites.

Goshen.

Jacob dwelt in the land of Goshen or land of Rameses.

Many people still adhere to the theory that Goshen/Gesem or Rameses was in the north-eastern delta of Lower (North) Egypt centred on Faqus/Qesem and Piramses (Avaris).

First of all let us look at the places mentioned in Genesis and Exodus:
On/Heliopolis (Genesis, Septuagint Exodus, Josephus, Apion)
Heroopolis (Septuagint Genesis, Josephus)
Goshen (Genesis, Exodus)
Land of Rameses (Genesis, Exodus)
Pithom (Exodus)
City of Raamses (Exodus)
Zoan (Psalms)
Memphis (Josephus)
Latopolis/Letopolis (Josephus).

3 of these places are in Middle Egypt not the Delta. The other 6 places have been supposed to be in the Delta but they are all disputible.

These are all the possible candidates for Goshen that we could find in ancient Egypt:
Kasios
Gasmu/Gashmu/Gesem/Gsm/Geshmu/Geshem/Qasim/Jashim (Qedarites) *
Qesem/Phacussa/Faqus *
Mistress of Qes
Khesun/Khesauu/Xois
Khasuu nome (Metjen)
Sokhem/Sekhem (Letopolis/Latopolis) *
Giza/Gizeh/Er-ges-her (near Cairo) *
Agouza/Agooza (Giza) *
(Ro-)She Khufu *
Kahun (Lahun)
Feshn
Qis (near Akhetaten/Amarna)
Qasa/Kasa (Cynopolis)
Qos/Gosu/Cusae
Qesi (Apollinopolis)
Kosseir
Al Uqsor/Luxor/Luqsor (Thebes)
Gerf Hussein

List of Rameses/Raamses candidates:
Piramses(meriamun) (Qantir/Avaris/Daba)
Ra (Ain Shams/On/Heliopolis)
The temple of (city of) sun/Re of Sesostris 1.
"Ra-em-shem-su/Ra'amcc/Re'mcc (An(eb)/Memphis)"?
Ramses name found in 3rd & 4th dyn buildings
Pyramid(s) (Abu Roash to Giza to Abusir to Sakkara to Dahshur to Lisht to Meidum).
Ranmaat/Nema(at)re/Labari (Amenemhet 3 & Labyrinth)
Ra "founded Thebes, founded Piramses according to same plan".

The only two major Goshen candidates are the conventional Faqus/Qesem or Gasmu in the northeast delta, and our Giza or Agouza or (Ro-)She Khufu (or Sokhem?) in Middle Egypt.
As for Rameses, with the exception of Piramses and Thebes all the other Rameses candidates are in Middle Egypt.

Some reasons why Goshen or Rameses can't be in the northeast delta are:
- Goshen & Fakus only have gos & kus in common (if the g & k can interchange. Goshen has no Fa-. Fakus has no -en, though the -en of Goshen and the em- of Qesem could match if the n & m can interchange. The Gesem version of Goshen in the Septuagint might not be reliable since it might have been influenced by Qesem.
- Qesem is only from the 26th dynasty? Gasmu is only from the 7th century bc.
- Goshen as the "best of the land" better matches Giza than the north-east delta.
- The bible says the Hebrews filled the land of Egypt, which fits better with a more central location of Goshen.
- Pharaoh put Joseph's brothers over his cattle, which might not match the north-east delta?
- Goshen was a land, Fakus is a city.
- Goshen was near Joseph (Gen 45:10).
- Exodus mentions that the baby Moses was hidden in the Nile river which seems to be the main stem/trunk not one of the 7 mouths/branches.
- The baby Moses was found by a daughter of Pharaoh, which means a location near the royal palace.
- Piramses is only from the 19th dynasty which is too late for Joseph and Moses unless its use is an anachronism which is unproven.
- Rameses was a land, Piramses was only a city, though they try to claim that the surrounding land may have been called after the main city in it.
- The bible doesn't have any Pi- or Per-, only Rameses/Raamses, while the other name Pithom is supposed to have a Pi- (though it doesn't have a Per-).
The biblical Rameses/Raamses is also spelt abit different to Ramses.
- Piramses is too close to Succoth and the Egyptian border re the exodus route.
- The Hebrews who made bricks for Raamses don't match the Apiru who hauled stones for Piramses and who are also called Senen "knights".
- The biblical name Pithom looks like its etymology may not be Pi/Pa- + Atum.
- There are other possible candidates for Pithom including Pium/Piom/Faiyum, Per-atum at Heliopolis, Itj-tawy, Tithoes.
- The royal capital of Egypt was not in the delta at the time of Joseph and Moses. Joseph and Moses were not likely to be running back and forward between the capital and the delta.
- Moses took the bones of Joseph, and Joseph was more likely buried somewhere between Giza to Sakkara to Dahshur to Lisht.

Reasons why Goshen or Rameses could match Giza or Agouza or (Ro-)She Khufu:
Jacob who dwelt in Goshen / Gesem / Kessan has many matches with Khufu/Cheops who was at Giza/Gizeh/Er-ges-her or Agouza or (Ro-)She Khufu. Jacob may also match the shepherd Philitis "lover of righteousness" who dwelt at Giza in the 4th dynasty (Herodotus). The names Goshen/Gesem/Kessan and Giza/Gizeh/Er-ges-her or Agouza or (Ro-)She Khufu are similar.
Josephus said the exodus started from Letopolis. Josephus also mentions Memphis.
The name Ramses was found in 3rd & 4th dynasty sites. Our other Rameses candidates are also in Middle Egypt.
The bible & Apion & Josephus mention On/Heliopolis.
Pithom might be either Piom/Pium/Faiyum or Peratum at Heliopolis or Itjtawy or Tithoes.

Anonther critic says Goshen was lands belonging to the pharaoh by An/On (Heliopolis). However, I haven't seen any match for the name Goshen at On/An, except possibly the -en could be An.

God match.

A critic claims that Khufu is associated with the gods Khnum and Re/Ra and Horus and Ah, and so he can't match Jacob who was a follower of El/Yah.

I don't really see Khufu is majorly connected with the gods Ah, Re, Horus. He has a Horus name and a birth name (Sa-re/Se-ra "son of Re/Ra/sun") but that is just like other 1st-4th dynasty kings/"kings". Se-ra/Sa-re wasn't introduced until Djedefre? Where is Khufu connected with Ah? Maybe the early Hebrews were not as puritanical as moderns assume. Each of those gods has similarities with El/Yhwh. Khnum is a similar creator/potter/ram god to El/Yah. Ah/Yah has been corresponded with Yahweh. Look how El/Yah is called God by Europeans, yet God comes from Norse god Godan (Woden/Odin?)
Khnum is also written Nu/Nun/Num/Nub/Noh and may be the Egyptian version of Noah.

"It is unknown as to why the king would use a shortened name version since it hides the name of Khnum and the king's name connection to this god. It might be possible though, that the short name wasn't meant to be connected to any god at all."

"None of the numerous relief fragments shows king Khufu offering to a god. This is remarkable...."

"historians such as Adolf Erman, Kurt Heinrich Sethe and Wolfgang Helck evaluated Khufu's character as heartless and sacrilegious"

Herodotus said the 4th dynasty Pyramid Builders closed the Egyptian temples.

(Khnum-)Khufu may match Jacob(-el) or "(the mighty one of) Jacob"?

Scholars who agree with Joseph being in the 2nd/3rd-4th/5th dynasties include Moller, Wyatt, Hoeh, Courville, Palmer, me.

4 comments:

  1. This is absolutely fascinating. If Jacob is Khufu then Noah's time becomes 8000 BC and Adam and Eve are even older at 12000 BC.

    By the way, looking at Cepheus (Khufu) the Aethiopian King in Greek mythology, you realize that his name is also Aegyptus. Aegyptus is obviously the name given to Egypt and derives from Aiguptios which means "Goat's back".

    Indeed, in Esau and Jacob's story, Esau was born with a hairy back, and Esau also means "goat" in Hebrew.

    Furthermore, they are both born from Rebecca (sister of Lavan, who is Lebanon) who herself has the name R'BQ as in BQO (Bekaa valley). One of them became Israel and the other stayed in Canaan (Phoenicia). This story echoes that of Aegyptus and Danaus or Agenor and Belus.

    I have my doubts however as I think Agenor and Belus are Cain and Abel, but I'm still not sure. That is because Agenor and Belus are sons of Phoenix, just like Europa and we know that Europeans first settled there more than 6000 years ago.

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    1. Thanks for your comments and interesting suggested connections.

      I don't believe that the conventional date of Khufu is right so it doesn't mean Noah would be pushed back to 8000 bc.

      I'll have to see whether Khufu could be "Cepheus" in the Ethiopian kinglist.
      But Aegyptus 1 is Ptah, and "Aegyptus" 2 is 19th dynasty in Josephus' notes from Manetho.
      I'll have to refresh myself on Agenor & Belus. Interesting suggestion of possible connection with Cain & Abel. Perhaps I'll add it to the notes on Phoenician & Biblical here https://biblehistory.createaforum.com/other-nations'-biblical-histories/phoeniciancanaanite-history-confirms-bible/ .

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    2. You're welcome. Interesting post you've got there. I'm currently writing a book on the syncretic/euhemeristic connections between most mythologies, including the Celtic Druids whom are associated with the Vedic Brahmans, the word "Brahma" being the same as "Abraham".

      Many connections can be found there but I'm more excited about the equivalence of "Hermes" with Enoch for example.

      Hermes' name is Pre-Greek, I suggest a root of Phoenician "Herm" (هرم) which means "Pyramid".
      He is equated with Thoth, Enoch and Taautus (the first Scribe/Architect from Byblos).

      Enoch's name is strange, in that it is almost identical to the Mesopotamian Enki, whose name means "Lord of the Earth" (En + Ki).

      Now, since Thoth/Hermes/Enoch are associated with the building of the 3 pyramids (Trismegistus or "Three times Great" was a name given to Thoth before Hermes), then it must also have a connection to the word "Ankh" used by the Ancient Egyptians. This word was almost always used in the context of a "pyramid" and we've never actually seen the object except in hieroglyphs.

      Now, could this Ankh actually be the same as Anki? The word would mean "Sun on Earth" because An means "Sun" in Mesopotamian.

      The connection becomes even clearer if you look at the symbol fo the Sun. It's an 8-sided star that looks exactly like the Great Pyramid of Giza from above!

      Another thing of note is the universality of Flying Snakes/Dragon depictions. What could this possibly be alluding to?
      My suggestion is that these are auroral phenomena, witnessed by the Ancients during their polar "exile" from the North Pole, as is explained in Norse AND Vedic mythology.
      Look up the Auroral oval and tell me it doesn't look identical to the Ouroboros.

      In Norse mythology, there is a "Great pillar" called Irminsul which deconstructs into Iormun-sul (Iormun/Jormun/Irmun meaning "Great") and is connected to the World-Snake Jormungandr!

      My contention is that the pyramids of Giza were built MUCH earlier by a different civilization than the tribe of Khufu/Jacob who basically found it in the desert while it was still "working" (i.e Jacob's ladder).


      Sorry for the extremely messy wall of text, there's just so much to talk about when it comes to this subject and I honestly didn't expect an answer from you!

      PS: I'm currently joining the Freemasonic lodge in my region, hopefully they'll have some newer (older) material that I could study.

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  2. Agenor's name appears as Chnas in Phoenician, and as Canaan, or
    Cain, in Hebrew. According to another account, Agenor and Bel
    were twin sons of the nymph Libya by the god Poseidon: and this
    means that their people belonged to the sub-Minoan sea-confederacy
    in which the Mycenaeans played a leading part. It looks as if the native
    Edomites, for whom later writers claimed descent from Esau, had
    fused with the Mycenaeans and become sons of the 'red man ' ; since,
    according to Genesis xxvi, Esau's marriage to Judith, daughter of
    Beeri, 'wells', the son of Heth, grieved Esau's mother Rebekkah,
    who was 'greatly vexed by the daughters of Heth'. Judith (the femin-
    ine form of Jehudah, or Judah) is a variant of Ia-Hu, namely, Ashima,
    the Dove-goddess. To judge from the quarrel between the twins
    Jacob and Esau — and again between Perez and Zarah, the sons of
    Judah — Hebron was a double kingdom, like Corinth, Sparta, or
    Argos, over which the twins, representatives of the Corn Dionysus
    and the Vine Dionysus, or of winter and summer, reigned alternately ;
    and its name may well be a worn-down form of Phoronicum, the
    first name given to Argos. But the legend of Jacob and Esau has been
    separated from its ritual context and given a historical sense : Jacob
    now represents the conquering Israelite tribe which stole Edom's
    birthright for a 'plate of red lentils ' by occupying the shrine — Edom
    in Hebrew also means a 'dish of vegetables '. Hebron was the most
    important city of Southern Palestine, dominating a fertile highland
    valley, and David made it his headquarters until he could seize the
    strategically more important fortress of Jerusalem.

    "It seems probable, then, that the legends of the first four books of

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    Genesis were deduced from Mycenaeo-Edomite pictorial engravings
    captured at Hebron by the Israelites ; that the characters in the ori-
    ginal Garden of Eden legend were Hebe, Agenor, his twin-brother
    Bel, and two other 'sons of Phoroneus ' mentioned by Greek mytho-
    graphers, namely, Cepheus and Iasus; and that the Creation was
    accomplished, with the help of the North Wind, by the Goddess
    Baou, or Thetis, who appears in Genesis i.2 as the 'Spirit of God', a
    female abstraction which the Pharisees read as Jehovah's Glory, or
    Wisdom. "

    Iasus is Esau and Cepheus is Jacob.

    Bel is Abel and Agenor is Cain.

    However, I think the story of Cain and Abel is much older than that of Esau and Jacob, the latter of which was written by Moses after he stole the Bible from Byblos itself.

    After all, the Israelites were known as "Shasu" with their god Yahu. Shasu means "usurpers" or "plunderers" in Egyptian.

    Also, YHWH has been shown to be an amalgam of Yahu(Iah) and El(Helios,Eloh) which means he is already inauthentic and "modern".

    I also believe that Khufu/Djedefre/Kamose were the Israelites mentioned in the Bible who left Egypt and "created" (took) the Ark of the Covenant from the Great Pyramid of Giza, hence why they closed off the temples and left the country.

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